I think people fundamentally misunderstand much of the nature of Christianity; especially when it comes to combining faith and political activism. The difference is found in the nature of behavior and separating what one does from what one is. What does it mean to “love one’s enemy?”
The “Love the sinner, hate the sin” argument is valid at all times. It’s easy if the sinner is neutral towards you or actively pursuing Christ. It gets dicier if the sinner is your enemy and actively pursuing your destruction. There’s a difference between sinners and enemies. Self defense is not ungodly or immoral. Neither is meeting an attack with superior force of the same kind in order to defeat your enemy.
Queen Esther saved the Jews from an evilly obtained government mandated destruction by righteously obtaining a separate government mandate to meet force with force. Esther’s “granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey.”
Examples of godly men opposing their enemies are found across the Scriptures. David, Joshua and Moses all come to mind. Others opposed godless government edicts at great personal risk; the first to “speak truth to power.”Remember the back story of Daniel and the lion’s den? Remember the back story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and the fiery furnace?
It’s true that at times, God has instructed one of His children to surrender His right to self-defense as part of a greater strategy. I know of testimonies of exactly that. However, this is a specific request for sacrifice and surrender of a right from an individual, not the building of churchwide doctrine on how to deal with enemies.
Consistent biblical doctrine is that, whether they be individuals or nations, the right to defend oneself from enemies exists and is not sin. Sin enters when our motivation ceases to be love of the life God gave us and becomes hatred of the one trying to take it from us. Sin enters when we name the motivation and character of our enemy. We cannot call our enemies evil men. We can only call their actions evil. The man trying to kill me is acting evilly. But he may not be evil; he may simply be deceived.
Such is the nature of our struggle against our Islamic enemies, for example. Only God knows the heart and may accurately judge it. For us to do so is sin. But their threat is no less real for all their deception. And it may be met with godly force and destruction, even on a massive scale if that is what is needed to defend oneself. Evil or deceived in motivation is irrelevant. Trying to kill me is an evil act regardless. I may oppose it and be on the side of righteousness. This is true if the attack is an armor assault or just a blog post.
Doing so isn’t seeking revenge; it is self defense! Doing so doesn’t violate being at peace with all men as much as is dependent on us; we are reacting, not acting. Doing so doesn’t mean we are not praying for and serving our enemies; US military hospitals routinely treat wounded Taliban. Doing so is not repaying evil with evil, it is, in fact, overcoming evil with good. Some forget such overcoming is not theoretical or hypothetical or, worse, spiritual. The overcoming is often dirty, brutal and deadly in the very real world.
The difference is found in the “Why?” and not the “What?” The difference is found in who starts a fight and who ends it. Fighting back against enemies is not just godly, it’s required. The danger is in becoming what we are fighting. For Christians, that is the struggle. To destroy the works of the devil; the lies, killing and destruction – while remaining pure in heart and peacemakers. No one said it was easy; just that it needed to be done.
Be angry – sin not. Fight your enemy – don’t become him. Do not repay evil for evil. Overcome evil with good. But be angry at evil behavior; fight, and; overcome. The alternative is unthinkable.

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#1 by Bob on 06/09/2012 - 12:21
Wow. Jesus disagrees with everything you just wrote.
If he’d've wanted us to be politically active, don’t you think he’d've been an emperor or ruler?
See if this rings a bell: “My kingdom is not of this world.”
Please, for his sake and that of your soul, stop using God to justify your American politics.
#2 by Blue Collar Muse on 06/09/2012 - 23:42
Wow, Bob …
The only thing He is disagreeing with is the deception you are experiencing. For all of recorded biblical history, godly men and women were involved in political leadership of peoples and nations.
Or perhaps you have overlooked Abraham, David, Solomon, Joseph, Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, Esther, any of the Judges, any of the prophets who spoke to kings and on and on and on …
What folks like you generally mean is that you don’t see a lot of political leadership in the New Testament. Not surprising. The political scene at the time was not conducive to it and the entire New Testament was written in about a 50 year span. Not a lot of time to change the political landscape.
But the entire counsel of God, Old and New Testaments, clearly allow and insist on political involvement. To believe otherwise is to put oneself at odds with the truth of the Book and reality.
His kingdom is, indeed, not of this world. But that does not mean He is unconcerned with what happens here. He gave man dominion to rule here in the garden. When man handed over his earthly authority in the Fall, one of the the things God planned to restore at the Cross was that authority and dominion. This is basic Christian dogma for thousands of years.
I am not using God to justify my politics. My politics are godly. There’s a difference. Not so subtle. You should be able to figure it out.
Finally, for the sake of argument, let’s say that I am wrong. You seem to think my being incorrect puts my soul in jeopardy. That amazingly incorrect assessment of what constitutes a danger to my soul is, by itself, enough data for me to discount anything else you might say.
If you don’t know what saves or threatens my soul, how would you know the Christian view of political activism.
‘Nuff said …
#3 by Dan Herbison on 06/25/2012 - 21:45
An interesting topic, and I probably agree with you more than I disagree…..
But….. (isn’t there ALWAYS a “but”?)…..
You need to consider a few things to polish your argument, I believe.
1. There are significant differences in the positions of David, Solomon, the Judges, Joshua, et. al. and Christians. Since Abraham, the Hebrews had not only a promise, but a responsibility to take and hold the land promised to Abraham and some of his physical descendants. There were EXPLICIT commands to kill to take and hold the land. Christians were never part of this Old Covenant (read Hebrews), and can’t go back into a Covenant they are not part of to find authority for their actions. There is no “land promise” in the Christian covenant (i.e. one of the aspects of “My kingdom is not of this world”). If there is authority for self defense, Christians must find it in our covenant, not that made with Abraham and his physical descendants. And whatever scripture we use to find this authority, it must be carefully reconciled with “turn the other cheek”, “as far as is possible with you, be at peace with all men”, “why not rather be wronged”, “they who take to the sword shall perish by it”, etc. It may be significant that we don’t find New Testament examples of Christians exerting a right of self defense?
2. It’s poor logic to cite examples of a behavior in Biblical characters and imply that “if David did it, God approves of it”. The counter examples are too numerous to need mentioning. One should look for God’s COMMENDATION of an action to conclude God’s approval. Yes, Esther used her influence to work the levers of power in her society to make the Jews’ self defense legal in the Persian Empire. But the Persian law is not necessarily God’s Law, and there is no explicit approval of Esther’s or the Jews’ actions in Esther. It is also not really an act of self defense, since the wives and children of the Jews’ “enemies” were also slain. And the number slain is probably at least 100,000, with no explicit attack on the Jews having been recorded. The text says . And the Jews reacted with gladness, feasting, and memorial. If the Jews’ actions authorize our self defense, why doesn’t the same account commend celebrations and feasting when we have to kill in self defense? That which proves too much proves nothing?
#4 by Bob on 06/10/2012 - 18:43
Your soul is in danger because you serve a false god called America. God doesn’t give man rights. Get that out of your skull.
See if these ring a bell: “Render unto Caesar.”
“Put away your sword.”.
Perhaps you’ve also ignored the commands to pray for your leaders. That’s about the extent of a believer’s involvement in the world.
Changing political landscapes was not then nor ever was the mission of the church.
What you show by your obsession with the political world is that this world is your home. As a disciple, lay up treasures in heaven. Sadly, your treasure and therefore heart are of this world.
Show me one…only one quote by Jesus where he justifies political action for the kingdom’s sake.
I am saddened by your love for the things of this world.
#5 by Bob on 06/10/2012 - 19:36
Besides, what are you defending? What in this world is so important o you that you feel you must defend it? Vengeance isn’t yours.
Luke 6 outlines how we should act towards the world. Then, in heaven, Jesus doesn’t ask how you voted or what candidates you supported; he asks if you fed the hungry, clothed the naked, and visited the sick.
Now THAT’S a political agenda Jesus likes.
So, again, please. Stop. Your politics are, by definition, ungodly because they focus on this world.
#6 by Blue Collar Muse on 06/11/2012 - 14:04
Bob -
It is the “I’m so heavenly minded I’m no earthly good!” mentality that you operate under that is the root of so much evil in this world. You cling to your narrow and incorrect understanding of a few select Bible verses that you cherry pick to justify your incorrect theology and ignore the entire counsel of God’s word which makes clear His intent.
For instance, you did not address, at all, in any way the myriad examples from the Word that I gave you where not only did God command involvement in the political world but He purposely set it up.
You want a quote from Jesus. What that normally means is that you want a New Testament quote. What you conveniently forget is that The Word made flesh was the Incarnate Word of the Old Covenant; the only Scripture available at the time. Thus, everything that Jesus taught and said, reflected the teachings of the Old Covenant made complete in the New. That He did not cover all the subject material of the Old Covenant in no way invalidates that material. Thus, my appeal to the Old Testament examples of godly men and women involved in the political process is both valid and would be supported by Jesus … after all, He wrote both Testaments, did He not?
That my love is not for this world in no way negates the fact that while I am here I am Christ’s ambassador. This is not a brief stopping place between my conception and my eternity. God is involved here and took on human form because all the parts of the human condition, including the political, which impact His creation are of interest and import to Him. Thus He calls and equips men and women to work and minister in all of them, again, including the political.
By your reasoning, anything that Christ did not mention specifically should not be of interest to us. Are you giving up cars, electricity, the internet and all the things Jesus didn’t specifically mention as being outside the scope of Christianity? I doubt it. You use many worldly things as tools to help you convey your faith. Perhaps that’s the best way for you to consider my political involvement – it’s just another tool.
One thing is for sure, it’s a tool that God is deeply interested in. When the Book addresses the political realm, it is always in VERY serious terms for both the kingdom and the world in which the kingdom exists.
If you don’t feel called to it, fine. Then it’s not your mission field. But at least have the courtesy and decency to leave those of us who are to be involved in it out of your “damned to hellfire” nonsense for our obedience to His calling.
#7 by Bob on 06/11/2012 - 19:59
You practice the theology of using the Bible selectively to justify your points, and, sadly, are accusing me of the same.
Yet, Jesus established a new covenant.
Your citations of political involvement all stem from the Hebrew scriptures, yet I doubt you keep the old law; I’m sure you don’t attend temple, keep kosher or follow the ritualistic cleansings proscribed by the law. Don’t forget: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” I urge you to be consistent. At least follow the whole law if you’re going to cite examples from it.
I’ll take your points in order. You say “I’m no earthly good.” Well, surely goodness doesn’t orgininate with me, if that’s what you mean. But for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven (a phrase Jesus uses almost too often to count), God made me good. And because he did, I now live for him, not for some human-created document like the Constitution. Like Paul, “I want to know Christ and the power of hs rising, share in his suffering, conform to his death.” Sadly, you would die (and kill) to defend rights given to you by man. I remind you that idolatry like yours was the great sin of Israel.
Again, your “myriad examples” come from the part of the Bible that Paul calls “our tutor”. Surely I don’t have to tell you that a tutor was used only until one became an adult. Once Jesus fulfilled the law, the tutor was no longer needed.
Yes! A quote from Jesus would work. But there are none. I’ve given you several to show you how Jesus felt. You’ve given me misapplied and politically manipulated OT examples to justify behavior. Paul calls people like that “foolish” in Galatians and asks them, “Who bewitched you? Having begun in the spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?” You see, the Galatians, like you, sought spiritual satisfaction through the things of this world rather than in the heavenly things.
Of course, you probably subscribe to the notion that worship is physical, tangible, defined by place and time. How could you not? You seek to change the lives of men NOT by bringing them to a better understanding of God but by changing a political system that is both temporal and temporary.
Do you really believe that America is God’s special physical nation? Don’t you realize that it will go the way of every empire in history? And, if you know that it will go away one day, why are you wasting time and resources trying to defend it?
You said something that I agree with wholeheartedly. We are Christ’s ambassadors. But think about what that means. Name an ambassador who is a citizen of the nation to which he is an ambassador. Name one whose job it is to change that land. No, an ambassador is an alien, a stranger, a non-citizen, a visitor and only there temporarily. 1 Peter 2 calls us EXACTLY that: Aliens and strangers.
Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, “Let your light so shine before Men that they will see your good deeds and praise your Father in Heaven.” Not, “Work to influence politics,” or, “Defend physical possessions,” but, rather, follow his command to, “Love one another as I have loved you.”
And he loved enough to NOT demand political rights, to NOT answer evil with evil, to NEVER put the things of this world such as governments and propery ahead of God.
The ones he does condemn are those who used God to justify their politics and their physical desires.
That, my friend, lumps you in with the Pharisees.
P.S. I don’t expect you to provide scripture. It doesn’t seem to be to you advantage to do so.
#8 by Blue Collar Muse on 06/17/2012 - 11:10
Bob -
I will not continue to throw my pearls in front of your swine-ishness. Thus, this is the last word on the matter here at my blog. If you have one and want to continue this at your blog, let me know the URL and I’ll join you there. Assuming using the internet and a blog aren’t too worldly …
You are deceived and ignorant (I’m using the that term properly – you lack the knowledge and wisdom needed for this debate).
I challenge you to prove to me that you don’t care about the political systems of this world. Demonstrate to all of us that your only concern is for the Gospel. Sell all you have, give it to the poor and go to the ends of the world with the Gospel. Start in Iraq, Iran or Saudi Arabia. Grab your bible and start telling the Muslims on a random street corner there that they are going to hell and that Allah is a false god and that you know the one, true God.
Don’t be concerned with what will happen to you when you do. Remember that it is wrong to be concerned at all with politics and governance and little things given to you by men like Life and Liberty (your words not mine – I know the source of my Life and Freedom). There’s nothing special about America and her place and influence in the world so why bother staying here? After all, you must preach the Gospel and almost everyone here has heard it at least once. So why have you not sold everything to acquire your Pearl of Great Price? Why are you not on the front lines preaching to those who have not heard?
In short, why do you not live by your own expressed values? If your life, property and such are so temporary and insignificant, why are you still clinging to them and why have you not abandoned them to preach the Gospel? You say that Jesus we should love others as He loved us. Why have you not left behind all the things and glory to which you might be entitled here in your home country and humbled yourself and forsaken all and gone to serve and die for those who don’t know what you know about the Kingdom? Why?
Instead, you fool yourself into believing that your time here commenting on my blog post somehow is a step forward for the Kingdom. If nothing I am doing has Kingdom application and you are all about the Kingdom, why are you here?
When you can write to me that you are in Riyadh preaching the Gospel; when you can write to me that you – like John the Baptist – are in Beijing calling out the immorality and corruption of the PRC government in Christ’s name; when you pay your own way to Europe to preach to a once Christian and now secular society that their governmental policies and their spiritual condition are unrelated then, assuming your physical body survives the trip to Riyadh, I will believe that you truly believe what you are saying. In the meantime, I and my friends are doing exactly that!!
Until then you are just another bad ambassador for Jesus who delights in living in a safe and Christian part of the world bought and paid for with the blood and prayers and sacrifices – spiritual and physical – of better men than them. You claim to be pursuing Christ. Yet you cannot see Him right in front of you.
Bluntly, put up or shut up, Bob! If this world means nothing and Christ means everything then surrender all parts of this world and go out in a blaze of Christian glory. Or do you love your life too much to really serve your God in such a way? Are you really that afraid of what men might do to you that you shrink from your stated Christian responsibility to preach the gospel to the whole world? You claim to put Christ first … I call you on that claim …. you do not and stand condemned by your own words and values.
You are a sad and destructive example of faith to the world around you. Jesus had kind things to say about the people in Matthew 25 who did good – PRACTICAL, EARTHLY GOOD – to those around them – feeding, clothing and visiting them. He never tied it to preaching the gospel to them. Just improving their lot in life and making things physically better for them. Unless you are saying that there is no difference between Capitalism and Fascism; between Democracy and Communism; between America and almost every other country in the world – then my efforts to improve the lot of millions are so basic a Christian responsibility and activity as to be undeniable. Except to those who deny the power of the gospel to transform every part of life and who are active in exposing all of life to the gospel for that transformation to occur for everyone, everywhere.
Which makes your efforts to disparage me and my work, and to do so using the scripture, dangerous for you and for anyone who might listen to you.
I pray that your mind, clouded as it is by the god of this world, will be cleared and opened. Your heart is good and well intentioned. Your actions and values, however, are the root of much of what is wrong with this world. You talk a good game but when handed the ball and asked to actually perform, you back away … Life isn’t a spectator sport, Bob.
Time for you to put your money where your mouth is. Get involved. Do it my way and we’re fine. Do it your way and we’re fine, too. But do something. Right now you’re just talking and drawing attention to yourself. You are not saving anyone here. You are now expanding the Kingdom here. By your own admission, your mission field is out there. Time to get going, brother …
Let me know when you’re having the yard sale to sell off your stuff to buy your plane ticket overseas. I’ll help promote it so we can get you top dollar for your “filthy lucre” and “worldly possessions” and “things of this world” which you won’t need wherever it is that you are going. I’ll even give you guest posting privileges here so you can tell us all about what God is doing in the Middle East and how many Muslims you have won to Christ.
Just let me know when you are ready to start serving God …
#9 by Bob on 06/17/2012 - 21:03
Typical response of “I’m right, and I’m shutting this down” mentality of your worldliness that you say you won’t discuss this further on your blog. You say you think, but again, where? Rather than bolster your argument with the words of Christ, you simply mouth false aphorisms that sound good but have no basis in truth/scripture.
And instead of ideas, you attack me, knowing nothing of who I am or what I do or have done. Your obsession with works seems to be a law-based theology that Jesus and Paul condemn.
And, yes, there is NO difference between capitalism or Communism, democracy or dictatorship. God doesn’t like one and hate the other. Did I not make that clear? All are destined for the ash heap. So you DO think America is God’s chosen nation! Wow. Sad. Your sacred cows of freedom are keeping you fom seeing God at all. God does not promise us a big house and new car every year.
Jefferson is wrong, man. God doesn’t give man rights. God gives man opportunity and choice and grace, but not as rights that we can demand. You seem to think that a gift from God can be and must be defended by man. That defense by man makes those things, by definition, gifts of man and not God.
No gift, NO GIFT from God can either be given to me by our defended by you. That’s why He’s God and you’re, well, you.
And, if you’re asking for a comparison of my “spiritual CV” verses yours, well, I have to answer to God, not you. But I’ll oblige. Graduate of a christian college (that’s where having that Bible knowledge comes from). Preacher and Bible teacher. Missionary to a former communist nation and jailed for it. Adopted a son from there. Ran a food bank on the edge of Appalachia. Drive a 1991 Nissan with >260k on it and bad brakes. Two room house, no central heat/air. And there’s no sink in the bathroom.
Want more, or have I satisfied your subjective criteria for service? Yet, even if I’d've converted every non-believer for God, sold the meager possessions, and learned all scripture, I would still not earn an iota of salvation. If I could, by my works, make myself any more godly, there would be no need for Jesus to come. No, none of that matters compared to knowing Christ (Phil. 3:8-10).
Paul says in I Corinthians 13 that even if I have faith to move mountains or submit myself to torture for God but don’t have love, I am like an empty sound or fatuous blogger.
Sinner? Absolutely. Saved by grace? Yes! Called to expose those who use the Lord’s name in vain? Again, yes.
And thats where you come in. I’m also NOT the one purporting to speak for Him on a blog as you are. How, by the way, does this blog feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and visit the sick?
By the way, I’ve looked at your blog…not any mention of God, really, except to justify political positions. Oh, you brag about a “hard corps” in which you take pride, but they are not Christian warriors. They serve an earthly kingdom, not a heavenly one. Fear God; honor the king.
Why are you not accepting the authority of the government as the Bible instructs you to? I Peter 2:13-17 should be your guide. Read it. READ it.
Then, live it.
And stop using God to justify your politics. Please.
#10 by Blue Collar Muse on 06/17/2012 - 21:22
Bob -
You obviously know as little about me and reality as you do the kingdom. I’m not shutting down anything. I’m behaving as the Lord did when faced with the pitiful values of the rich young ruler. He told him the truth and when it was rejected, He let the man walk away.
I’ve told you the truth. You will not abide it. There is nothing more to be said. I asked you to leave and you cannot even do that. You insist on continuing to come to my “house” and insult and attempt to teach and instruct me despite my telling you to stop. Nice imitation of Jesus, my friend …
You’ve read my blog and there’s no mention of God? Did you actually read the post we’re commenting on? That you cannot even rightly assess the very thing we are both discussing means that I am not at all surprised that you cannot find “God” anywhere on my blog. I’m not sure you would recognize Him if He emailed you personally.
You are driving a deceived and dangerous agenda. You will not even follow your own advice but run around and find fault with everyone else.
You must have strong neck muscles from holding up the weight of that beam in your eye …
Go away and stop using your God to justify your deception. Please.
I am not using my God to justify my politics; my politics are godly. There’s a difference …
You can’t see the truth of my statements because you are not willing to be bound by your own stated truth.
I am done casting pearls before swine. I suggested you start your own blog and invite me over there to continue this. You won’t.
That speaks to your lack of integrity and character, not mine. Clean up your own sorely sagging house before you offer to clean up mine. Why should I respect you and your views and abide by them when you don’t respect them enough to live and abide by them?
Go away and foist your legalistic, graceless, rote, fearful ideas of service and discipleship on someone who knows less about real Christianity than I do … your ideas and misconceptions about the character of God and His call on lives are dangerous and unwelcome.
I cannot make it any plainer than that.
#11 by His Servant on 06/18/2012 - 09:57
What hope does God’s kingdom have if we spend so much of our time, effort and energy defending our own kingdoms (be they theocracies or religious dogmas)? Everyone has their own agenda and no one seems to have HIS agenda. Yes, “my kingdom is not of this world”, and yes, too Cornelius was a soldier who was not called to resign his commission just becuase he became a believer. God is so big he has room for all of our silly opinions. After all, death is what we are all looking forward to anyway – that blessed home-coming where we will serve one king.
Please, where ever you find yourself (a gung ho patriot or a passive anarchist; a tea party republican or a maoist in China) use that position to serve the LORD.